city line backer jovan belcher. in a column written by jason whitlock because, quote, whitlock said it so well. >> handguns do thought enhance our safety. they exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it. in the coming days, jovan belcher's actions and their position connection to football will be analyzed. who knows? but here wrote jason whitlock is what i believe if jovan belcher didn't possess a gun he and cassandra perkins would both be alive today. >> the 93-year-old costas has gotten a bit of blow back for his comment as the nra-ceo said, quote, people turn on nbc to watch a football game and didn't want to listen to bob costas make excuses about a murder and wining about his social agenda of gun bans in the middle of a football game. remi, let's go to you first. whether you believe in gun control or not, i can't remember. it is half time at a chief hfs panthers -- chiefs-panthers game which for your information is football. really the best place to make a political statement? >> yes. isn't that where every

. star jovan belcher and cassandra perkins. the kansas city star and the "new york post" report that belcher spent the night drinking and partying with a girl named britney glass, at a popular bar district in downtown kansas city. belcher drove miss glass home, dropped her off and passed out in misbentley. 2:50 a.m., cops woke belcher up and told him not to drive. he called glass apt spent the next four hours in her apartment. at 6:45 a.m., he drove the bentley to his home where girlfriend perkins recently arrived with her own night out with friends. argument ensued and belcher shot perkins nine times. belcher's mother and baby were there for the shooting. after killing perkins, belcher kissed the lifeless body, walk toed his mother, kissed his baby girl and left. he drove five miles to the chiefs' practice field after several minutes of pleading with him, they couldn't talk belcher off the ledge. belcher thanked the coaches, knelt down beside a car, made a sign of a cross and put a shot to his fare hoed ending his life -- fairhead ending his life. serve trying to make this about the

caster bob costas. on saturday morning, kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher murdered the mother of his 3-month-old child. girlfriend cassandra perkins at their home. he drove to the team's practice facility and turned the gun on nims front of his coach and general manager. no one knows what set him off. but costas thinks he knows the reason. here he is on sunday night football. >> you want actual perspective on this? a bit comes from jason whitlock who i don't agree but today said it so well we may as well just quote or paraphrase from the and of his article. our current gun culture, whitlock wrote, ensure more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy an more convenience store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodieed and dead. handguns do not bring safety. they exacerbate our flaws and bait us to embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it. in the coming daying, jovan belcher's action and the possible connection to football will be analyzed. who knows, but here wrote whitlock, this is what i believe. if

, now the shocking incident on saturday. kansas city chiefs linebacker javon belcher shot and killed the mother of his baby daughter, then drove to the team's practice facility and shot himself in front of his head coach and the team's general manager. on sunday, that shooting prompted this extraordinary moment from bob costas during halftime of nbc sunday night football game when he quoted sportswriter jason whitlock. >> in the coming days, javon belcher's actions and their possible connection to football will be analyzed. who knows, but here, wrote jason whitlock, is what i believe. if javon belcher didn't possess a gun, he and kasandra perkins would both be alive today. >> poignant words. what should this country do in response? joining me to debate what is certainly a matter of life and death to so many people is david copel, research director at the independence institute. on the other side is josh horowitz, executive director of the coalition to stop gun violence. welcome to you both. david, let me ask you, i suppose an obvious question, why did jovan belcher need a high powered ha

handgun was used. kansas city chiefs line backer jovan belcher shot and killed his girlfriend kasandra perkins. he then drove to the stadium and shot himself in front of his head coach and team manager. we're faced with a senseless tragedy involving gun violence. last night sportscaster bob costas used the words of jason whitlock to weigh in. >> our current gun culture ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy and more convenient store confrontations coming from loud music from a car will leave more teens bloodied and dead. handguns exacerbate our flaws tempt us to escalate arguments and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it. in the coming days, jovan belcher's actions and their possible connection to football will be analyzed. who knows. but here, wrote jason whitlock, is what i believe: if jovan belcher didn't possess a gun, he and kasandra perkins would both be alive today. >> that statement has enraged the great defenders of america's gun culture at fox news. they put forth their best efforts to smear bob costas in

control. critics are blasting costas. the murder suicide of jovan belcher has started the fire storm. >> in the coming days, belcher's actions and their possible connection to football will be analyzed. who knows? but here, wrote jason whitlock, is what i believe. if belcher didn't possess a gun, he and perkins would both be alive today. > >> greta: costas was quoting jason whitlock. immediately after he spoke, twitter blowing up with reaction. herman cain tweeting you tune in to a football game and listen to bob costas spewing sang t sancts drek. >> where are we headed? bob costas deserves to be fired for these remarks. >> he's allowed to have his opinion. yes, he's allowed to go there. >> we want to ban guns because the gun kills the person, not the person pulling the trigger. >> you want to get a political lecture by the rantings on the left, i suggest that bob costas could have worked for msnbc. >> jason whitlock's right. if there's no gun here, nobody's dead. i don't know what the issue is to take issue with. >> i don't get the sense he was calling for specific legislation or sa

belcher. you know he killed the mother of his child and then committed suicide. but what do we know about his girlfriend? his partner? the mother of his child, kasandra perkins? according to the kansas city star perkins and belcher were madly in love but argued of late. the star added many people knew that belcher owned guns and enjoyed shooting but they'd never known him to be violent. not even close. nbc's bob costas on sunday night football took on the gun issue and started a twitter firestorm. >> you want some actual perspective on this? well, a bit of it comes from the kansas city-based writer jason whitlock with whom i do not always agree but who today said it so well that we may as well just quote or paraphrase from the end of his article. our current gun culture, whitlock wrote, ensures more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy. >> we'll talk about guns and crimes and domestic violence in a minute. first, casey wian is in kansas city this morning with the chiefs. good morning, casey. >> reporter: good morning, carol. police here are continuing to inves

halftime of last night's eagles game offering his thoughts on the javon belcher tragedy after he took his own life this weekend as well as the life of his girlfriend, kasandra perkins, mother of his 3-month-old child. the murder suicide has reignited the violence in football, football and drugs and athletes and guns and, of course, guns and violence. let's backspin on it. i'm a little emotional after reading that. my first thought here is bob costas is in his right to say whatever he wants to say and hold whatever position he wants to hold. i personally have a pretty nuanced position on this issue in general. you know, i think the nra, gun owners of america go too far in imposing any kind of restriction on gun rights. they think you should be able to own anything in any number and carry it in any place at any time, and that i disagree with but what i would say is let's leave the constitution out this because i think that's a complicated argument as well. what i would say is if you want to infringe on liberty and say you can't do x, y or z, i think the burden of proof has to be on you

gun. we now see in text messages between javon belcher and a friend he is complaining that cassandra perkins may have had a boyfriend and he may have had a girlfriend on the side. we haven't sorted this out yet. he is complaining about it. buddy says you better get yourself a gun. he says i have eight of them. the buddy didn't say you better get a samurai sword. you better get a led pipe like professor plumb and the conservatory. he said get a gun. i'm not the least bit afraid to talk about the gun culture, to talk about domestic violence. i thought it was self-evident this was a domestic violence case. self-evident to talk about the effects that football and the culture of football have on many of the people who play it i have done it before and i will do it again. i will look for places where there is more time to do it. in retrospect, i don't back up on anything i said. but i think it might have been more effective if i said, look, if he would looking for perspective on this, we're going to have to have a serious discussion within sports, an ongoing discussion, not five minutes of

memo. as you may know, kansas city chiefs football player belcher murdered the girlfriend and mother of 3 month old daughter and then committed suicide in front of his coaches. doesn't get worse than belcher used a handgun to commit his crimes there are many aspects to this case. bob costas brought one of them into the arena last night. when he quoted a kansas city sports writer named jason whitlock who assigned some the blame for the horrible crime to gun possession. >> our current gun culture, whitlock wrote ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy and that more convenient store confrontations over loud music coming from darr will lead more teenage boys bloody and dead. they exacerbate our flaws tempt us to arguments and tempt us to confrontation rather than avoiding it. >> even if you believe what costas and whitlock are putting out there, what's the solution? the constitution gives americans the right to protect themselves,s that clear. many parts of the country people need hand guns in order to feel secure against criminals who might harm the

rather than aroiding it. in the coming days, javon belcher's actions will be analyzed. who knows, but here wrote jason whitlock is what i believe. if javon belcher didn't possess a gunering and kasandra perkins would both be alive today. >> joining me now, bob costas. bob, thank you for joining us. i'm wondering when you decided you were going to have to say something, obviously you would have to say something about this horrible murder-suicide that occurred, nfl player killing the mother of his child right in front of his child, in front of his own mother, then killing himself. how did you decide how to do that in your show? >> well, i only had about 90 seconds and half of that or close to half of it was devoted to another observation. and throughout the day on the other network football programs, and then earlier including in the prior segment on our show original football night in america, the why's and where for had all been covered. i was looking for a different way in. some people may have misunderstood my comments. i took one aspect of it as expressed by a writer whom i quoted

happened saturday morning when jovan belcher shot and killed his 22-year-old girlfriend in front of their 3-month-old daughter and belcher's own mother. he then drove to work where he met with his head coach and general manager and thanked them for all they had done for him, then he went out in their parking lot, saw police approaching, and shot himself in the head. football being football and by that, of course, i mean football being big business, the game, and by that i mean the big business must go on and so, of course, the kansas city chiefs played their money making game the next day. the football business was hoping that tv football commentators would ignore the biggest thing that happened in football this weekend. but bob costas could not. >> in the aftermath of the nearly unfathomable events in kansas city, the mindless sports cliches was heard yet again. something like this really puts it all in perspective. well, if so, that sort of perspective has a very short shelf life since we will inevitably hear about the perspective that we regained the next time ugly reality intrud

chiefs player jay vaughn belcher here's what asa's had to say. our current done culture with lock wrote ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy and that more convenient store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead handguns do not enhance our safety they exacerbate our flaws attempt to escalate arguments and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it in the coming days javan belcher's actions and their possible connection to football will be analyzed who knows but here wrote jason whitlock is what i believe if trayvon belcher didn't possess a gun he and cassandra perkins would both be alive today. and here's what caused this didn't say he didn't say the government should take away people's guns he didn't say we should repeal the second amendment and he didn't call for limits on gun ownership still the conservative media and the blogosphere along with fiery outrage towards cost to us and fox news is still talking about it today so if we really come to a point in this coun

control after a murder-suicide involving kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher. listen as he quotes extensively from foxsports.com writer jason whitlock. >> our current gun culture, whitlock wrote, ensures more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy and more convenient store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenager boys bloodied and dead. handguns do not enhance our safety. they exacerbate our flaws, bait us in to embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it. in the coming days, belcher's action and the connection to football will be analyzed. who knows, but here wrote jason whitlock is what i believe. if belcher didn't process a gun, he and perkins would be alive today. >> bret: news busters said costas entitled to his opinion but does he have to give it during halftime of a nationally televised game? critics who say political bias turns up in college classrooms have a big number to back up the case. the web site campus reform looked to federal election records from open secrets.org and found 96% of donations from ivy

murder-suicide of the player from kansas city. >> here is what i believe. if javon belcher did not possess a gun, he and cassandra perkins would be alive today. >> cenk: we'll give you the details in a minute. and on the issue of homeland. have you seen this tv show? it's about the c.i.a. well, the question is are scenes like this realistic? >> you're a terrorist. >> imagine we were sitting down to dinner with your wife and children and drone strike heads destroy us all. who is the terrorist. >> cenk: we have a former c.i.a. agent on the show tonight and she'll explain that the scene is shockingly realistic. how much did sheldon adelson spend on this election? >> cenk: shooting his girlfriend and then going down the stadium and shooting himself as well. we'll give you more details on that in a second. what everyone is talking about is bob costas' reaction during the sunday night football game. first he started out unobjectible, poignant and he usually is. >> in the aftermath of the unphattible eventsunfathomable events in kansas city. this really puts everything in perspective. if

. the kansas city chiefs reeling after police say linebacker jovan belcher killed his girlfriend then drove to arrowhead stadium and took his life in front of his coach and manager. martha: despite this tragedy. kansas city managed to play their scheduled game and as you would imagine it was a very emotional day for the players and the teams and the families and fans. after the game this is the scene. you can see the players alternating there. the teams gathering together as they huddled in prayer at mid field. >> we are grieving for all involved. it's tough when a circumstance happens, you can't undo them. so you have to rely on each other, rely on your family and friends and rely on your faith. that's what the team tried to do today and we were able to do that and work our way through the tragedy. >> the police investigation goes from here. it's hard to imagine how that team could witness a player suer suicide and take the field the next day. >> the head coach and gh have talked to police about it but declined to talk to the press after yesterday's game. >> i think that respect

talking points memo. immediately after belcher killed his girlfriend and shot himself excuses started. trotted out by a variety of pundits. here is the fact. belcher is solely responsible for the horrendous crime which orphaned his baby daughter. he did it he knew right from wrong, he he chose, he chose to inflict lethal damage. there is no question that belcher was mentally imbalanced you don't do what he did when you are in control of yourself. to blame society or guns or football is grossly irresponsible. tomorrow bob costas will appear on the factor to explain his remarks. he finds himself in the middle of a controversy we are anxious to hear his point of view. another guy who has inserted himself into the story kansas city sports writer jason whitlock who cease it that way. >> i believe the nra is the new kkk and the army of so -- arming of some black youths and loading up our communities with drugs and having an open shooting gallery is the work of people that, you know, obviously don't have our best interest. >> bill: what a bunch of bull. we invited mr. whitlock on the

racist. that's not surprising, either, rush. at least lee von belcher did not go to the caribbean with a gallon of viagra. please, spare me go get another divorce and another marriage. "young turks." [ ♪ theme ♪ ] >> good evening i'm eliot spitzer and this is "viewpoint." we have become all too accustomed to gun violence. in recent years despite horrific tragedies, we have lacked the political will to do anything about it. now a suicide has brought it back into the public eye. livan belcher murdered the mother of his daughter and shot himself. >> here wrote jason with it lock is what i believe. if he doesn't possess a gun he and sandra perkins would both be alive today. >> half time of a football game was the wrong time to bring up the issue of gun control. wane lapierre accused costas of promoting an anti second amendment agenda. media conglomerates want to ram gun control down throats. those of us who believe in gun control should bring all the pressure we can to where it might make a difference. the white house. when president obama was in tough straights he went back and d

end in the coming tragedy. in the coming day. javon belcher's actions will be analyzed. but here is what i believe if javon belcher didn't possess a gun. he and sandra perkins would be alive today. >> gretchen: i don't know it is interesting. you can't say that. when people want to kill other people . there is a lot of ways to do it i don't know. would the rage come out in a different way? would he have strangled her? i don't know if anybody knows quite frankly and it is dangerous to kind of make personal predictions when you don't have the facts . no one will know whether or not he would have killed her with or without a gun. >> brian: people with guns can get them. >> steve: he had them legally. >> brian: illegally? >> steve: legally. >> brian: i just don't know it is appropriate enough less than 24 hours after the guy took his girlfriend and mother of his baby to make that stance. i don't think we needed to hear that last night. >> steve: i think you are right. 10 after the top of the hour. >> gretchen: a dope smuggler rams his boat in a another boat. the coast guard intercepted

-suicide by jovan belcher. bill o'reilly just sat down with costas moments ago to talk about the controversy. we at "the five" have the first clip. you will hear that in a moment. first, a 9/11 call has just been released in the case. this is belcher's mother cheryl shepard pleading for help after the mother of her granddaughter was shot by her own son. listen. >> dana: his mom obviously a strong woman, kimberly. some people asked today is it the case of the law that you have to release a 9/1 9/11 dash 911 tape like this or do they keep them private? >> andrea: if a request is made, subpoena to the tape and get reporting they are allowed to because it's part of the public record. once you do the proper steps you can get it. certain case, judge or prosecutor is pending, which we don't have here, because everybody is deceased that was involved in it. they can block it and say it's in the best interest to keep this sealed or out of the public domain. you can imagine a situation like to is very traumatic. this little girl is going to grow up knowing that her father murdered her mothe

>> the murder/suicide with joe vaughn belcher, prompting the rant. >> handguns do not enhance our safety. they exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate our arguems and bait us into confront egg. in the coming days, javaughn belcher's actions will be analyzed. who knows? but here is what i believe. if he doesn't possess a gun, he and cassandra perkins would both be alive today. >> costas was quoting jason whitlock and immediately after he spoke, twitter blowing up with reaction. herman cain tweeting, you tune in for a football game and end up listening to bob costas spewing sarchght moanuous drek. >> where are we headed here? >> bob costas, based on the standards of our society today and the standards of our industry deserves to be fired. >> he's allowed to have his opinion, just like we are all allowed to have our opinion on this show. so, yes, that's what he does at half-timey we want to ban guns because the gun kills the person. >> you want to get a political lecture, by the rantings on the left, i suggest bob costas go to work for ms-nbc. >> whitlock's right. if there is no g

back to their families. but the autopsy result won't be ready for 6-8 week. belcher shot and killed his girlfriend before he drove to the football station and committed suicide in front of his coach. last night nbc's bob costas made the story bigger when he used the understand dengt during prime time to deliver a gun control lecture. trace gallagher joins us with more. >> reporter: the autopsies are key for a couple reasons. the kansas city chiefs say jovan belcher has no history of serious head injuries, but friend say he has many times received head injuries and in recent months he was taking heavy medication as well as alcohol to deal with this. we also now know that jovan belcher's mother was inside the house when he shot and killed his girlfriend, reportedly shooting her nine times. the mother is the one that called 911. police say there is no history of domestic violence. but friends are saying this was a rocky relationship. during halftime of last night's game bob costas, the nbc broadcaster used his segment where he often does opinion on sports to instead advocate for gun contro

who jovan belcher was, let alone he had a 3-month-old baby girl with his 22-year-old girl kasandra perkins. today we are learning a little bit more about this couple, but really so far little is known about what prompted the violence. kevin powell, i want to bring you into this conversation, you wrote this -- this column, this op-ed piece for cnn.com/opinion. you call it manhood, football and suicide. first, just welcome to you. i want to play a little sound and we'll talk about your piece, but i just want you to hear and our viewers to hear what one of belcher's teammates said and we'll talk about, you know, some of the athletes you've counseled. listen to this. >> sometimes you got to go out there, let your emotion and frustration out on the field. that's what we did as a team today. still, once again, we lost a teammate. and we lost a friend. >> kevin, you're not just an author and activist, you write in your piece how you've counseled some professional athletes and some entertainers, privately, and you -- to quote you, they have been grappling with very warped definitions of ma

the nfl player jovan belcher. apparently just hours before he shot and killed his girlfriend, tops our look at the stories around the news nation today. officers reposponded to a 911 cl five hours before the murder-suicide. police say they let belcher go. he did not appear to be intoxicated. nbc sports commentator bob costas responding after a firestorm of criticism in the sunday night commentary. he talked about guns saying he wished he had more time to talk about the issues surrounding belcher and perkins' death. >> what i was talking about here, and i'm sorry if that wasn't clear to everybody, was a gun culture. i never mentioned the 2nd amendment or used the words gun control. people inferred that. do i believe we need more comprehensive and sensible gun control legislation? yes, do. that doesn't mean repeal the 2nd amendment. >>> and bank giant citigroup is cutting 11,000 jobs worldwide. this decision is part of a company's restructuring. and will save they say $1.1 million a year in expenses. it's the first actions by the it'sight back. actions by the again? it's embarrassing

. and here is what i believe if jovan belcher didn't possess a gun, he and cassandra perkins would both be alive today. stuart: we want to know what you think. go to our facebook page, weigh in, we value your opinion. and a top environmentalist, will a carbon tax will cause the glaciers from melting and temperatures from rising. his response in one second. >> announcer: you never know when, but thieves can steal your identity and turn your life upside down. >> hi. >> hi. you know, i can save you 15% today if you open up a charge card account with us. >> you just read my mind. >> announcer: just one little piece of information and they can open bogus accounts, stealing your credit, your money and ruining your reputation. to relentlessly protectelock what matters most... [beeping...] lping stop cros before your ideity is attacked. and now you can have the most comprehensive identity theft protection available today... lifelock ultimate. so for protection you just can't get anywhere else, get lifelock ultimate. >> i didn't know how serious identity theft was until i lost my credit and

hours ahead. we'll have joe linta, agent for the kansas city chief es linebacker jovan belcher, remember he tragedy took his own life after shooting his girlfriend over the weekend. connecticut democratic senator richard blumenthal will be ining us. we'll have republican congressman from florida, connie mack, and california republican mary bono mack joining us as well. and former commerce secretary carlos gutierrez, tiki barber is with us, as well. "starting point" begins right now. good morning, welcome, everybody. our "starting point" this morning is those pacific storms in northern california. third one in five days from san francisco to sacramento, floodwaters and fierce winds have been knocking out power to thousands of people. some people who lived in the areas for decades say they have never seen anything like this. >> thing just went up fast. >> we've had previously where it's gotten up real high but hasn't gotten this bad. >> do you live right here in the park? >> right here. >> right here? yeah, right there. i got my mom out. i took her down to a friend's house down t

on to they are this other story. this weekend kansas city chief player jovan belcher killed his girlfriend, the mother of his child, and then drove to the chiefs stadium and shot himself to death right in front of his coaches. to be clear, we do not know the causes or the reasons behind this tragedy, but we have seen six nfl players take their own lives in as many years. studies have shown that some of these players have something called cte, chronic traumatic encephalopathy. it's like an alzheimer's type of position attributed to repeated head injuries. our senior cnn medical correspondent elizabeth cohen has been looking into this story, and there are -- there's more information. it's incredibly coincidental, but there's more information coming out about head trauma and repeated head trauma and how this can effect the brains of pro athletes. give me a bit of a feel for what these studies are saying. >> there's one big study that is just coming out today and is done at boston university, and people have looked at brains of athletes who have had this condition after they died, d

out what prompted jovan belcher to murder his girlfriend before taking his own life. police say that jovan belcher shot and killed his girlfriend, kasandra perkins, on sunday morning before heading to the chiefs stadium where he killed himself in front of his head coach and others. the chiefs have any moment of silence before their game yesterday to remember all the victims of domestic violence. not specifically naming jovan belcher, but certainly a lot of questions. steve brown has more in chicago with this. we heard a little bit of the 911 call before the break. how do those final moments play out at arrowhead stadium earlier on saturday morning? reporter: yes, let's put that into context. kasandra perkins was shot numerous times and fatally wounded by the father of their child. that is jovan belcher, who drove to arrowhead stadium, essentially to talk to two people. that would be head coach and general manager. neither of those two gentlemen have commented on how those final seconds played out. but police officer that was watching did watch those fateful seconds unfold. >> we

jovan belcher and his girl , costas said if belcher didn't possess a gun and he perkins would be alive today that triggered a backlash from gun rights advocates some calling for nbc's ouster. no comment from the network. >>> manning brings the broncos to the coliseum this week. we will carry the game live here, we will make it raiders day. [ unintelligible ]o q! >>> relief for muni riders that is our big story. >>> all night effort to fix a power problems seems to be paying off. what muni is saying now about the morning service. >>> big mess in marin. what is happening after a school shutdown after water >>> good tuesday morning. 5:29. thanks for starting your day , i'm kristen sze. >>> i'm eric thomas. muni riders getting from point a to b again this morning after power outage put the brakes on service last night. amy hollyfield has the good news live at church and dubose. >> reporter: i can show it to you, here comes an n judah now one of the lines that was only going to have partial service this morning but they were able to get it fixed in time for the commute. commuters are

stretching from javon belcher and the shooting in syria and chemical weapons seems like a bit of a stretch. the implications of that is that every american should have access to chemical weapons and nuclear weapons. it will result in weapons ownership. look at europe. look at japan. look at the rest of the world. we are way, way out there. we have the highest murder rate in the world. it hasn't protected us. it has resulted in arguments that should have a consequence of maybe a slap in the face, resulting in a bullet through the heart. it results in a double-murder in this case, a murder/suicide. guns don't protect. they cause suicide. >> let me bring in -- >> they cause suicide? >> i can promise, i'll get back to you, carol. here is what they say to me. i've had it all. but trying to get a debate going. i've been on two years on cnn. in that time, there's been a series of gun rages. each time it is the same debate and nothing gets done about it. 300 million guns and you have between 11,000 and 12,000 guns and murders a year. by comparison, britain has 35 as does germany and australia. jap